Hello! It's been a minute. Catherine and I actually recorded this episode a few months ago but his summer has been insanely busy with two summer classes, extra hours at work and a total body detox with my doctor but we are back with a super fun episode.
In this episode, fellow chronic illness warrior Catherine Ames and I discuss the qualms of dating with a chronic illness. Catherine walks us through how to use dating apps and then we get into how sex can be different for those living the sick life.
Dating and sex can be uncomfortable topics for anyone to talk about, but especially difficult when you add some chronic illnesses on top. We hope this episode helps bring some ease to the dating scene if that's where you are headed.
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Transcript
C: Welcome everybody to the it goes without saying Podcast. I am your host Cass and I am joined today by my friend Catherine Ames. What's up girl? Catherine is a student at the University of Southern California, USC, if you will. And she is a columnist in their student newspaper, The Daily Trojan. But Catherine also has some chronic illnesses, Catherine, what chronic illnesses do you have in the pot?2
CA: Oh, yeah, baby, I got them all. I you know, I got the big umbrella term diagnosis of lupus. And then you know, all the other little cute things that come along with it. I have an immune deficiency. I have chronic migraine. I had dysautonomia, and then under that umbrella is pots. Oh, what else? Um, chronic pain, chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia. And some doctors think MCAT some doctors think eds. Basically, I like to call it just a big question mark of a constellation of symptoms. Definitely autoimmune in nature, definitely all inflammatory in nature. Yeah, I know, I'm not alone in having diagnosis for the purpose of insurance, but also being like what the fuck is going on my body1
C: 100% This is why she is known as chronically Catherine, for her column in on her Instagram. So make sure you follow her. I'll tag her on the posts. But so one of my good Lyme friends one of my very first Lyme friends actually sent me an email like a month or two ago and she was like, I knew the only other person that will understand this. And it happened to be one of Catherine's articles. And it's about dating with chronic illness. And it had me like belly laughing because of how accurate it is. And just I have been thinking about doing a dating slash relationship episode of the podcast since I like came up with an idea for the podcast. And I was like, hey, I need to reach out to this girl because she needs to talk to this about with a talk about this with me because this is so important. And something that I'm really want to discuss because I also am trying to get back into the dating sphere, because it's been a little while. And this is exactly what I needed to like, get me on board. So thank you for writing this article.
CA: Absolutely, yes, this was a, I think maybe the first or second call on my road. And like you. It was the reason I started with this subject was because I was young, I'm young person, I'm 22 young student living in this modern day and age who got diagnosed with chronic health issues about two years ago and had to move back home and take a pause on the university experience for a while and pause my education so I could focus on what was going on with my health. And I know you mentioned before we got on here that you know your life journey has been going on for like what, like nine plus years. And I'm like relatively new to the chronic illness, world chronic illness experience. So I, you know, it took me a year to find the online communities for chronic illness. For me that's mainly been through Instagram. But it also took me a year of like finding therapies and feeling well enough to be like, wait, so now I have to live with chronic illness. How the hell am I supposed to one participate in activities that you do like when you're young, which are fun, which is like, be an either party or go to concerts or mean Yeah, oh, people do these things too. But you know, like, I want to be live during my you know, my body is fighting against me. I want to be alive and I was like wait, so Okay, so I'm sick now. But like, wait, so how am I supposed to like date and fall in love and meet people and how do I tell somebody I'm interested in what is going on like, behind the scenes, you know, because you and I both have invisible illnesses and for people in the Who are you know, differently abled, who may have visible disabilities. That's a whole other conversation and I can't To speak to what dating is, like, in that lived experience, but I can't speak to what it's like having an invisible illness and having to like think about things like pre medicating for a date, or having to like set a date where I know that there's like food I can tolerate or where I know there's gonna be shade, because my pots is like, a raging bitch when I'm in the sun too long. And like all those things. Like, I was like, wait, so like, Where's the Instagram accounts like for chronic illness? Like, they know that this chronic illness means like, what is the wrong one for like dating? Like, where? Where can you find this information? And I couldn't, and I, I didn't. And so I finally felt well enough after going through, you know, like a year diagnosis and half year of treatment. I was like, Alright, well, I guess I just have to like, shoot your shot, shoot my shot and full send. And so I had been my previous relationship before I was diagnosed when I was in university, and we met during orientation of college, and I dated this guy for almost a year. And that was my last relationship. And I had some you know, like hookups and you know, some flirtatious whatever you want to call them. But since getting chronically ill, and I wasn't in school when I was living at home, and I was like, I see, like, one of two options. One option is I like, go to a bar. And I, because I think that's what you're supposed to do. Like that's what TV shows taught me up. But I can't do that because we're in a pandemic. Uh huh. lol, sorry, I can't do that right now. So the only other option is dating apps, like hinge and Tinder and Bumble. And I was someone who always vehemently It was like, never gonna find love on that, you know, like the internet is, you know, like the internet is, you know, like, you don't make real relationships on the internet. But like, I quickly got off my high horse because the since sorting chronically, Catherine, I'm like I made a relationship with you. And that's a real relationship. Like who says that meeting somebody online isn't a real relationship. And since becoming chronically ill, online communities, our communities like it. So I quickly got off my high horse and was like, I need to check myself because meeting somebody online, you know, like, there's nothing wrong with that. Yeah, just no matter what your baby boomer parents might say. There's nothing wrong with meeting somebody online. But I know you like recently got into the online dating game and like using apps to meet people, which I you know, I talk a big talk but that shit intimidating. Okay. It's not easy.1
C: I literally Okay, so backtracking a little bit, but yes, so like, I've also been the person that was like, Oh, my God, I'm like, I can't do it. Like I so I have gone through phases of like, dating. So I was in a, like, long term relationship, my like, last two years of high school, I think, like, a little after that, as well. And so, but that boy had known me since I was like, in sixth grade. And he, like, knew that I was like, sick. Before didn't have a full understanding of what it was like, before we started dating. But so it kind of just, like, fell in that way. So I was like, I that was a totally different story, but also was like in high school. So you will in the hallway, and you can meet people that way. Yeah. But so after that one, like, I was really, really sick for a while. So like, the thought of dating had like, there was no thought of dating in my mind, cuz I was literally just like, survival mode, trying to get myself Well, in that, like, has gone several times when like, okay, yeah, I kind of know well enough, maybe I could like date a little bit. And then it's like, I get really sick again, only in survival mode. And then like, I can do, let's have gone through those phases. And so I've one time a few years ago, I did try Bumble. I had one on like, one date with with one guy or whatever. And we talked for like, a few weeks or something. But I like I had such anxiety with it, because I like, feel like a bad person. I'm like, Yeah, I feel bad judging people just based off of how they look in their file. But then their friend was like, Cassidy, if you were at a bar before you'd go and talk to somebody, you literally be judging them off of what they looked like. And I was like, that looks right. Or their body language or like, I don't know, like, I was like, okay, so that made me feel better. But yes, so I have I downloaded the hinge app, but I have not done anything with it because I don't know what to do. Okay, which is what I was going to ask you about because in Catherine's blog right here, she literally outlines which is one of the hardest things like what the fuck do you put In your profile when you're like a chronically sick person, yeah, because like you don't want to, like throw it out there and be like, Hey, I am bla bla bla bla bla like just like, like, no offense like it. It's kind of terrorizing for, like, at least like daunting when you're like see someone written when you have to write it all out, like, even when my first podcast episode came out my best friend Paytwn, who was in my second episode, she listened to the first episode and texted me and she was like, dude, like, I've lived this nine years with you. And it's still just like, holy shit. When I was listening to it again. I'm like, yeah, it is kind of scary when you first like, You don't? I don't know. I don't know. Like, what are you supposed to say? Even for a normal person? If I wasn't like, chronically sick? I wouldn't put in a dating profile. I wouldn't know what pictures to put yet. Catherine, explain me, what do I put in my profile?
CA: Okay, so two quick things first, for even if you're not chronically ill Hi. Welcome to the conversation. You're welcome here to. And if you are chronically ill, hopefully we can provide some tips and tricks for you. Like, based on our lived experience, based on my experience on dating apps, but this kind of goes for anybody. Like, the elephant in the room is that yeah, it is strange to judge somebody based on pictures and images and like, you know, quotes or their bio, or, like text on their profile is strange. And it can feel really judgmental and really subjective. And, like you said, We and I think a lot of more people will relate to the struggles of online dating. Because to put into context, I am living at home currently, I did online school this past semester. Cassidy, you live and commute from home. Yep. So for the chronic illness community, pre pandemic, living in isolation and trying to find connection online that will translate into meeting up in person in real life, that most of the time chronic illness, people are more well versed in that then people who have the ability to meet in real life circumstances like especially on college campuses, which is just a concentrated amount of young people, and a constant concentrated opportunity for experience, whatever that be on a college campus, right. So, yeah, coming to like, if you aren't part of the chronic illness community, or if you're approaching online dating for the first time pre pandemic, it was it like now post pandemic, I feel like a lot of people have turned to, we've all had to turn to the internet in some way to connect with other people. Right. So hopefully, like living through the pandemic, you've gotten a little more comfortable with using technology to your advantage, and maybe having less shame and using technology to meet people because there is no shame in using technology to meet meet people yet. First, the first hurdle to overcome is downloading the apps. Yep, that is so so awkward. For me. I was like number one, you're like, all right, like rulebook out the window. Here we go. And I think that's honestly, the best approach is, first before you download the apps, like, know that this is going to be an experience of growth, and there's going to be some discomfort and there's going to be some oh my god was so we're now or like so awkward moments. But like to me, I find that So, so entertaining. That's the moments of like storytelling to your best friends. Or when you text the best friend and you're like, oh my god. Like, oh my god, I got my high school just like my profile. What do I do?1
C: That's the most terrifying thing. I live in my hometown. Literally, as you're just saying that I was like, Fuck, what if people I know from high school, like, I match with them? Like, oh my god.2
CA: Yes, I that's happened to me, too. I live in my hometown as well. And I think this whole I think approaching. Like, for us, we're talking about dating, music apps is a total lesson in asking yourself why you're doing this, right? Like, but you also don't really have to know. You don't have to know why you're doing this. You just feel an inclination to put yourself out there and meet people. Don't listen to anything else. Your anxiety brain says your depression brain, take that, take that and run with it. And that's a perfect that is all you need to download these apps. You don't need some big long explanation of how you want to fall in love or that you want to hook whatever if you just want to meet people and you want to go on a date. And you want to dress up, or you are looking for a hookup or whatever, just, that's all you need. You don't need. And you also don't have to explain yourself outside of the app or inside of the app. And I think we'll get to that in a second.1
C: Yeah, I actually heard like, what like got me into like, the like, I should really download an app was like, a couple months ago, I was listening to DAX shepherds, podcast, armchair experts. It's like my favorite. And he had this sex therapist on there. And she was talking. And like, I just, like kept talking, like how dating like you have to practice. Like, it's not just something like do and she's even like, like how you said, like, he would usually go on like, one date with a person, like you need those practice dates, like, and it's just something you have to keep working out because you can get out of practice of it. And then it's like, super scary and super, it's like a sport kind of like, like, if you had like for me like oh my God, if I was to go try to like play a softball game right now, and I haven't played softball in like seven years. Like that would be freakin terrifying. Like, it's something you have to practice it. And that's kind of where my mindset is right now. Like, I'm trying to not put any expectations on it. And be good. I've always been I'm also a hopeless romantic. And I watch hallmark movies. And all I read is smutty romance books. And I'm like, Oh, my gosh, they like the grumpy office worker fell in love with the secretary. Stop. It's so cute. Yeah, so that's not my life. And I have to have to accept that, like, the billionaire is not going to come and find me and take me on his private yacht, and marry me. It's not gonna be me. So like, trying to, like, drop all those fake expectations that society has put into us and just be like, hey, like, I kind of just want to talk to someone just to have someone else to talk to to like, my, like, who I call is my mom, my sister, my best friend like, hey, maybe just to have like someone else to talk to you? Like, how? Like, I don't know, do you know what I mean? Like, yeah, I totally put any of those, like, that's gonna be the person I'm gonna marry expectation on it. That's not who I'm looking. Like, that's not it that comes down.2
CA: Yeah, that's not the main goal. Yeah, you need to go. And like, I would say, the expectation is, for me, the tactic does work best is go on dates, for an adventure and experience and to make connection with somebody. And to learn something about someone new, yep, their lived experience. And maybe something comes out of it, maybe I get a second date. You know, maybe you do fall in love with them. But nine times out of 10, you have a hopefully you have a good time. And I think we'll also talk about how to like, screen people on your profile and check for flags, because that's a thing. But for me, nine times out of 10. It's just been like, you know, like, a nice, you know, coffee with somebody or pizza and just like chatting and hearing about what their interests are. And if you go into it with not low expectations, because expectations can sometimes keep you safe. You know, like, you need to keep expectations or your standards, you need to keep your standards in check, know your worth, but yeah, going into it with with expectations, and then bringing it back to chronic illness, not entering dating. As a space, as someone who's chronically ill, with expectations that you're going to make it to every date, that you're going to feel great on every date. Whether that's physically, you know, being okay with canceling a date, because you don't feel up to it. being okay with ending a date early because you're not feeling well, or you have a treatment to get to or whatever, like centering dating around prioritizing your health first, right? We're not saying go date, throw everything else out the window, because that's what it takes to find somebody. No, you you're you've worked so long to get your health where it is. Or if you're in the throes of diagnosis, like that's your number one priority. And frankly, most of the time, like we talked about early earlier. Like, I'm not interested in dating, when I'm in a lot of physical pain now, when I'm sick. I feel like when I'm nauseous or like, I don't want to see anybody when I feel that I right. But if you are interested in and you're feeling better, or you're in a place where you're like I kind of want to meet people, yep. Then none of that should ever come before maintaining your health and putting that first. And I think that's kind of the theme of the conversation is dating isn't is it should not be a subtraction or take away from what you're doing to better your health or keep your health. It's an addition. It's a fun addition and it's It's something that should supplement and parallel your journey to continued health or improving health or keeping your body at homeostasis. It should never be something that like takes you out of your routine so much that it impacts your health, or you know that it drives your health in the wrong direction. But that being said, download the apps. Now you got to fill them out.
C: Yeah. Like, what? Get back to the profile? What do I do? Okay, so let's pretend that I'm making filling in my app right now. Okay, so what pictures are you supposed to use? Because like, I like how you pointing that out in your article, like, the only pictures that I have in myself, like, I have super awesome pictures of my stomach starting to look like I'm six months pregnant. But like, that's not a picture I'm going to use on my profile page. And like, I read up on it, and they're like, don't use selfies. Don't use this. And I'm like, well, bitch, what the hell you want me to put in my profile picture? Because I don't know. Like what I'm like, like, how are you supposed to do that?
CA: First of all, if you want to pick put pictures of yourself getting an infusion of yourself getting treatment of yourself bloated, there's no problem with that. Like, please, let's normalize that body's changed shape. Bodies go through ups and downs. Bodies don't look like let's get away from our capitalist patriarchy. You know, what? largely white, a great idea and westernized standards of beauty. Right? Like, if you are loud, proud and want to put a picture of yourself with your port or your pic or your bloated or with your IV pole, like, do it more power to you, right? And the people reach out to you on those apps are the people who can handle it, right? They're not intimidated by your IV pole or your bloating or whatever, like you in a hospital gown. Like, the people who reach out to you, despite putting that on your profile are the people who can probably hang right. So but there's also something to be said for asking yourself, okay, like, what? When I'm in a relationship and this will be different for everybody, but like when I'm in a relationship I had when I'm when I started dating, I had to ask myself, one What am I What am I comfortable sharing? Yeah. To what am i comfortable sharing in person to you? What am I comfortable sharing on my profile? And three? You got to think about it like from I guess maybe a moral perspective or an intro. introspective perspective. But basically ask yourself and I would, I hope that this is true for people listening. And this is true for me at least is my chronic illness is not me. Yet, right? Like, I am not lupus, I am not migraine. Catherine does not equal idg to subclass immune deficiency, right? Yeah. It's my baby by vicious Catherine. It's funny. Katherine dances, Catherine sings, Catherine likes to drive with the windows down, like, that's my personality. And that's what I want someone to like. That's what I want to relate to. That's what I want someone to eventually fall in love with. That's who that's who I bought my eventual lifelong partner to marry or however you want to solidify your relationship with someone. That's what I hope it that's what it should be around. Right? And if but if chronic illness, let's say in the unique circumstance is your point of connection, that's great. But in my experience, setting up my profile was an act of saying, I'm putting who I am, aside from my chronic health conditions as my front and center, like Katherine Ames. Without chronic health condition, she lives with them, but they're not the main character on my character, you know? Yeah. So1
C: I love that. I like sorry, the main character. I just really liked that.
CA: Yeah, it's so yeah, it is,you know, so, yeah, you know, you like lupus is not the main character, my life like it's caffyns you know, like, it's the Catherine show people. Let's get it over. Okay. Yeah. It's the captain show, like, Catherine. Um, so that I think, for me, when I realized that I was like, wait, like, I may go on a date with someone and they may never know that I have chronic health condition. And that's okay to like, it's totally up to you. And I think it dating is another act of taking control of your narrative and taking control. Um, your circumstances?1
C: Yeah, that's kind of like what I said earlier, when I said like, in the life that we lead with such uncertainty, I am now looking at the dating part of it as something when we can kind of have the control over it. It's like, hey, if you don't want to be active on the apps right now, because you don't feel well, you don't have to be active. If you aren't feeling that person, you can respond and say, Hey, like, I'm not really feeling it, like you can do whatever you need to do. You are the one that's in control, which is kind of something that's different for us because our like, our bodies aren't really in our control. But this is something we kind of can control. Yes. By 1,000% agree.2
CA: Okay, let's go to the apps. Yes. So I'm literally going to open my hand job right now, please. So here's what Okay, let's break it down for the people. There's three main apps, right, like if you there's Bumble, which is where the woman or the person who identifies as female reaches out to, I guess, the person who identifies as male, or maybe they're, I don't know, I can only speak from like the SIS perspective and the heterosexual perspective. I'm actually not sure how it works. But like, I use rumble a few years ago when I did it. And like, yeah, that was like, I was one that was like reaching out and stuff. So there's that one where I think it's more maybe one sided. And then there's Tinder, which are not I think people have this preconception that Tinder is for hookups. And like, maybe it is a little bit more, but I'm not on some totally platonic, like, regular people dates with Tinder. So still a great option. And then there's hinge which I think for people our age is definitely the like, let's go on a date. Yeah, I'm checking app. And and I think I found most of my dates through hinge. But again, whatever you're looking for, if you're a chronic illness, you know, like Mary spoony, and you were like, EGF, maybe Tinder is the best option for you, you decide what's right for you. I'm gonna pull up pins right now. And like I said, my column, I had it hard time, like picking pictures from from like, that I felt were representative of like, who I was, but that were also recent, because my past two years have been totally consumed with chronic illness and like being in the hospital and all the glamour of doctors offices, it was all like, I mess it up.
C: Mine is all like, yeah, me being like, my stomach bloating and stuff. But that's literally my entire camera roll is just my niece and my nephew. And I recently realized like on my Instagram that there was like, nothing indicating that these were my children. So I recently changed my Instagram bio to say, like, Auntie, or something. I was like, people probably think that these are my actual kids. And I've had like, I've had members at my work, like, come up to me like say, like, thought they were my actual kids. And I'm like, I mean, I am with them all the time. And they pretty much are mine. But no, those are not like2
CA: yeah, if you do you can feel them or not. I think that he of this whole conversation is you do what you're comfortable with and be proud of what you want to yet you would want to roll with like, Lord Jesus Almighty, please just do what you're comfortable with was there is no one out if you if there's someone out there telling you what you should and shouldn't do and how you should and shouldn't date. Yes, just questionable. suspicious. So mine inch profile. There's one picture of me on a day that I was really sick, but I was looking cute. So I took a selfie with There you go. If you need to dress up and go outside or like slap some makeup on, take a picture you might do. Also, like no shame and asking your friends to help you take some pictures. no shame in saying like, Mom gives you a picture of me like we're running coffee. He's like, take a picture of me drinking this coffee. I think I look good. no shame in that. Right? Anything you want to call it? Me and Catherine will come and help take you like take pictures of you. Yes. Yes. And like, right like that. The whole like profile thing? It's a means to an end, right? Yeah, or not your profile. You are the person who you hope to like you're the person. How do you say this? You are not like the series of pictures and images and texts. You're This is a means to meet somebody and to like, hopefully spark conversation, right? So it should like reflect your personality. So I have a picture of me from like, I think this is probably 2017 of me and my two best friends. We look odd. They're my best friends. I'm putting up like that's, that's honestly all the thought that was put into it. I have another picture of me here with my other two best friends. And I'm holding a cordless phone that's not attached to anything. I thought that was hilarious. That's pretty funny. I appreciate it. But I look hot. So who cares? 2017 putting it up there. I have a picture of me when I was like a little kid and I had just the ugliest haircut. So worst case scenario, go on your go old school, break open a scrapbook or photo book or go down to your fridge and snap a picture of you know, your ugly self when you are a child and whatever outfit because there's a story there, right? It's like a conversation with somebody who likes it and is like more what's going on here or haha. Like, I relate or whatever. Yeah, so worst case scenario. hinge does like what like six pictures. One of the six. Two of six could be you as a kid with a funny story. Great. Yeah, you got to down. My last one is a video three. So like three of six could watch the video of my dog just out like going absolute desert, like, and I thought it was hilarious. So that was one of mine. So I've got two that aren't even really that are not reason pictures, ones of me, kid ones of my dog going, you know, to having a zoomies to our from several years ago and to a relatively recent, right like, and if I didn't tell you that you would never not ever know. So we're going to use that to our advantage again, another theme of today. Yeah, they don't got to know what they what you don't want to tell them. No, right. Yep. So I love that. I don't know about you. But that's how I chose my pictures. And then I was kind of like, Okay, put the phone down. I'm done with it.1
C: Yeah, that's how I'm done. Like I literally I still have not like made it up yet. So I'm I need to but I'm also have not been feeling good again. So I'm like kind of in like the I'm getting in between data in between right now. But there again, but so I have time to try to figure out which pictures I'm going to pose which I also do like the hinge allows you to do videos, though.
CA: Yeah, because the other ones I do, which is really good. I feel like you also get a lot more out of the video too. And what's cool about hinge to is you can put captions on it. Like I know there's one that's like whatever caption like my peaceful place or whatever. And you could put a video of just like a lake and someone's where's this and you're like, Oh, this is my where I go to camp every summer or like I was in Italy, year one. So I guess like pictures that may start a conversation or pictures where you're like, yeah, damn, I look fine. I love. Sure. So you are beautiful and accept it and appreciate it. Exactly. So I would say also something like on a practical level, and I'm sure a lot of like you said you like looked up articles like what do I buy for my hinge profile? I say some general rules of thumb are gotta have a good picture of your face. Yep. No sunglasses on. Yeah. Right. Because like, I want to see them. I want to see them big blue eyes. What are the big brown eyes? Or I want to see them eyes? Yep. A picture of you. Having a good time is usually a great picture to have another elephant in the room? You do not have to put a picture of you wearing a bikini have You worthless go. Like, yeah, if you want to test. But there is like for all the websites or blogs that are like, you should have pictures showing off your body. Fuck that. But yeah, no, it's once again, whatever you are comfortable with.
C: So if you're comfortable with that, go for it. If you're not, yes, don't fucking do it. You don't have to no one's forcing you to do that.
CA: So make sure if you What's your best friend's childhood photo, a video of your dog or whatever. But I think what we're trying to like, I think the big takeaway is one photos that started conversation are really helpful. And to like radiating the kind of energy that you want to receive, right. So if you are looking for a hookup and you want to body audio over your profile, bitch do it. Are you 1,000% Um, but I've also found that like, yeah, I've gotten some creepy guys that are like, hey, gorgeous, but you look good naked. Like, you know, I'm like, Hey, I'm lucky but thanks. That's great. And but I'm flattered, but it's gross. But nine times out of 10 I've mostly gotten people who are chill or perfectly nice Are you know, aren't assholes. So I figured there's something else I wanted to say. Oh, the bio. Yes, yeah. That's movement. Yes, the buyer.
C: Okay, so what? What is your bio? Say if you can share with us because like, Wait, can I read? Okay, I'm going to read you some of the funny ass BIOS that Catherine put in her blog or in her column was like these are what I actually Okay, wait, ready? Catherine 22 No, I don't care how big a fish you caught or what kind of car you have. Yes, shower sex is an option as long as you're cool with a shower chair. That one had me I'm not gonna like I was actually laughing so hard because like, Yes, I also have a shower chair.Yeah. Oh my gosh, Catherine 22 has tubes coming out of her arm. But don't worry, they won't get tangled if we make out like the slow clap for Yes. So like, yes. Like that's what are you supposed to write? Like? Yeah,yes. What? Yeah, what the heck are you supposed to write?
CA: That's literally Yeah, that's what I wrote is how I felt because I do read that column is totally unfiltered. Like. So. My. I'm gonna, let's pop over to Tinder. My Tinder profile. I was so fed up with being unsure of what to write in my bio. I had no idea. But I'm also not the kind of person who is going to leave a blank. Yep, he was I never backed down from a challenge. So I panicked and I wrote this is I kid you not I'll show Cass. She can. I literally wrote a rhyme Ron. I wrote a little poem. And it goes like this. street smarts, neat parts mango large Tater tarts, vaccination hearts. That's it. That's the book. That's about everybody. Thank you for coming to this podcast. Ks club class. My point being your bio can be a series of random words. And I still have gone on dates with people from Tinder people still like my profile, like, so. I mean, it could be anything. I know some people you know, for guys listening think they had to put their height thing they have to put their like, you know how much they can bench or you know, I don't care about that. Maybe some girls do. But I'm talking about Katherine here. You don't need to put that. Maybe put something like a favorite movie quote. I always find those interesting, or Yeah,1
I'm pretty sure that's what I did. I did I'm think for my Bumble profile. I did like, I took a movie. I think it was like, I'm just a girl look like standing in front of a boy asking him and it was like, like from Notting Hill. And I Oh my god, it was something so stupid. Like I think it was like you like pineapple on your pizza. Like I think that was like what it was. It was like my question like, that was my profile.2
CA: Here's the other Yeah, here's the other hack. Absolute hack. No shaming us inside there. Because again, they'll never know. Yeah, frickin Google's and Tinder files Google come up like there's Yeah, there's no problem with the googling like funny Tinder BIOS. And either one copy and pasting that shit because because chronic illness we want to make things as easy as possible. Like we're trying to save time here right not trying to mince words to use get inspired from something that you see that like somebody else created you know, like, you're like oh wow, like Cassavetes movie quote. Like I thought I could think of a movie quote or like Katherine wrote a nonsensical rhyme I think that like there's no trademark or copying copyright on what I just said take it use it needs like words like like we're just trying to help sisters and brothers out like come on. Um, so no shame in googling but I think on my hinge profile he just cool looks they have like, questions that you answer. Um, I'm going to read mine. Yes, please do get your phone out and take me Take them take them from me because they're not mine then they're here and share. So my first one is believe it or not. The the question that hinge like this little blurb and it says Believe it or not, I then you fill in the blank and I wrote I'm Mr. Brightside. Okay. Well, that that's my first karaoke song. There you go. Bam. Take it use it Cassidy whatever you're in the halfway across the country. No one's never gonna match the same. Okay. My second one is the the one I chose to answer was ideal first date and I wrote includes a slice of 3.1415 love that. I love it. That's so funny. Use it. You Was it taken? It's free. And then my last one was, I chose the pro the question, let's make sure we're on the same page about. And then I just wrote Kidz Bop.
C: Okay, I appreciate the kids, Bob. That's so sillly. Okay, this is making me feel so much better because I like I've just been like, Oh my god, I'm so stressed. What do I do with it? But it's like, you can make it however you want it. Thank you.
CA: You bettermake it. So again, like, just like, yeah, and the cool thing about hinge too is that it auto populates answers to inspire you like a things you'd like to write. So like, if I wanted to change one of my things, like one of my blurbs on a hinge, you go and you click edit on your profile, you click the little blurbs. And you say, like you'll, you know, change the question. And it takes you to all of the potential ones you could choose to answer like, it says, change my mind about and then hinge has already filled in answer for you taking a mini break from all my social media accounts. And you can just say, oh, wow, that's a great answer. I'm just going to reword that and put profile like make it as easy as possible, once again, saving time because you're tired, and you don't want to have to deal with that.1
C: So okay, so let's say we get the profile set up. Okay. And, like, you're talking to someone, yes. How do you go about setting up a date? Because I know like, for me, I think you've kind of touched on it earlier. But so recently actually did go out on a date. I didn't have to use the app for that one. What, but but like, once again, all about like, taking the control. I tried to make it so that I am the one who's like, planning it kind of not like I like asked, but I'm like, Okay, well, like if we could go like, Oh, we should have like I didn't say like, let's go here. I'm like, Oh my gosh, have you ever been to this restaurant? Because in my mind, I was like, okay, because I know, because I have very, very, very strict dietary restrictions. I know 100% that I can go to this restaurant and eat something there. Yeah. And I know that I trust these people that work at the restaurant, and I'm not going to get sick because they're not going to fuck it up and accidentally cook it in like butter.
CA: Yeah. Sorry, actually cook this and peanut oil. Yeah, it's like, Oh, great. Thank you. I'm going to go cry. My epi pen out? Yeah. So first date, like, so? Yeah, I don't remember I was going like, but something along those lines about date ideas. That'sbasically you locked in your how you lock it in is you make the, I would say, make the first move in terms of setting a time location circumstance for the date, right. So like, Yes, you've got chronic illness, you're either you're relying on taking medications on a certain time, you're relying on having certain foods or you can only have certain foods, you have allergies, a time of day, that works better for you, you have energy at a time of day, whatever it may be. And this can be for people not experiencing chronic illness too. Like you've got a kid that you've got to pick up in school at four or like you got work that lets off at five or you work night shifts. So you have the mornings free, whatever. I think the most that is honestly to me, quoting DJ Collin, the major key to Landy and date is being comfortable and like you said, practicing initiating where the day it's going to be right. Like, it's 2021 baby. Yep, we got no problem with who sends the first text, right? No problem without and you can double text that shit if you need to, like you do. Absolutely, absolutely. So maybe the conversation is already you know, talking about light hearted stuff or somebody has responded to something on your profile or whatever. And you're like this person seems cool. I'm no problem with saying this. Why do I don't know about you? I just say, hey, you seem cool. Want to get coffee sometime? low stakes. One for keeping in mind like, you want to be safe on these platforms. Choose a public place right off the bat publicly. Yep. 100% always, always public. But if you're somebody like, you know, thinking about the chronic illness side of things, I'm somebody who like can't survive a date without having food. Like if we're just going to sit and sip on tea for two hours. Can't do it. I need like, I need I'm a nibbler ie I need to like constantly snack on something salty. So for me, I love center your date around food. And it's usually a great like point of conversation you can talk about, you know, like small talk, this food is so good, whatever, or contrary like to you, you have places you know that safe for you to eat right? So there's no problem with saying, hey, you seem cool. Want to go grab a bite at insert place? Yep. And then you take the control back. Yeah. And then you just take you take the control, and then you meet them halfway with, you know, if you can, if you can meet them halfway with, when it is or where it is, or whatever it may be. But I every date that I've gone on, I've usually been the one who's like, great, you seem really cool. Like, let's get I'm also not someone who's going to I'm not a texter for like two weeks, and then let's go on a date. And like, if you seem cool, let's see if this checks out in person. Yep. And then1
C: that was also something super interesting from that podcast that I was referencing earlier, which I can also link it here, but they so I like went on to that sex therapist podcast, and she had one with one of the creators of hinge and I listened to it. No way. Yeah, it's actually really interesting. So I'll share it with you. Yeah. But so this woman was talking and she's like, Doc, she literally says that don't talk on like, Don't text for weeks at a time. Because when we actually in person, you don't have anything to talk about. Yes. Like you run out of the idea. So like, if you're getting a good vibe, and you're like, Okay, like, we're kind of meshing here, bring it into person, because you don't like also like, I don't know about you. But I'm like an entirely different like a totally different, but I'm pretty different person in person than I am in text. Yeah. Like, my personality doesn't shine through texts. I'm also terrible at texting my phone autocorrects the word and to abs and I don't know why and I don't fix it. And my like, I always have typos in my messages. And I don't care about them. Like I've just I'm not a good texture, but I'm a pretty good time in person. So like, Yeah, exactly. All the time on like texting.2
CA: Yeah, I totally agree with that. Um, I think there's also a, if you can't meet in person, like, when the pandemic was happening? Yeah, I was in full swing, rather, and there wasn't a vaccination, there's no treatment, we had no idea what the hell is going on. FaceTime is also an option. But yeah, you can join me FaceTime a date with somebody, like if you have a compromised immune system, and you're still socially, physically distancing, social distancing. Or you seem to be extra careful, right, or you can't get the vaccine for any reason. And so, I think, taking control of when the date is where it's going to take place, no shame in that, right. Yeah. And to me, I find it attractive when people take initiative, like, Yeah, because it's one less thing that I have to do, because I'm doing so much for my health. And for, you know, school all the time. Like, if someone suggestions suggests something sets up a time is like, hey, like, meet me here at this place, I have a surprise. I'm like, Oh, thank God, I don't have to do anything. I just have to block myself. Right. So that's great, really, maybe the second or third date or when you get comfortable or other circumstances. But for the first day, I always am like, let's do this at this time. Are you free then? Right? And then people also filter out the people who can't commit, and then you don't waste time on those people.1
C: Exactly. So I set up the date with this guy, like the first one. And then for the second one, like it was kind of like a group effort. Because like we knew, like we wanted to, like we knew we just wanted to like chill. And like we were trying to watch Falcon and Winter Soldier or some huge Marvel fan, but like, Don't didn't want this guy to come to my house, because I've only been on one date with him. And I didn't want to go to law school, like I want to be with him. So that was where I was trying to do. So there's like local, like, cidery place thing. And I was like, okay, like, we could go there because like you can kind of you can like rent like your own space. And then like, we could just watch it on like an iPad, if you can download the episodes and stuff. But I knew that this place, like had food and stuff, but I knew that I couldn't eat anything there. So I just ate before I went, like I knew that that was going to happen. So like I also plan that into like kind of how like we talked about, like, navigating stuff like that. Like, I knew that I wasn't going to be able to eat anything there. But I didn't want to like not like tell him we couldn't go there. So I just ate before I went and I knew that that was what was going to happen. I brought myself some snacks like I can munch on. I can eat almonds, but they have to be peeled almonds. I just take the skin off and almond which like I didn't know is a thing, but it's really weird and it's cool. But so they have to be peeled almonds. So I brought like a bag of peeled almonds. And so if I got hungry, like I can have a little snack and like cider and like I can't drink alcohol but I was like, You totally can go drink. He was like are you gonna get something to drink? Do something drink and I was like No, like, I can't but you totally go. Like I always try to do that with people like not even just for dates, but like my friends and family. I'm like, I'm fine. Like I know that I can't eat them. Here like I've already prepared myself for this, it's totally fine. But I don't want that to stop you from having the good time. Yeah, like yeah, also, like, if you're like me and you don't want like, I don't know, excesses, another anxiety thing that I get sometimes like, I feel like I'm causing it, to bring it down a little bit. I'm always like, oh God, like I'm the burden. But they once again, take the control, I okay, I look at the situation, I know that I won't be able to eat here, I plan ahead, I eat before I go, and then go. But also, you could just find somewhere you can eat. But like, just another thing, if you want to do other options besides like food and stuff like that with going like on a hike or something like if that's something you're kind of into, like, making sure that there's a hiking place you can go to that does have like rest areas along the way, or like benches, or something you kind of know about, like, those kinds of things that you know, okay, I can do this, but, or like if you're friends, now that people are vaccinated and things are opening up, if they want to go to like a bar or a club or something and like dance around, as long as you make sure that they're like places that you'd be able to sit and chill and like rest a little bit like you're able to do these things that you take that like little initiative and stuff. And you're you're the one that's picking the place, kind of Yeah, yeah, I2
CA: totally agree. And I think like, rounding out your point you just made by saying like, all of these extra little things that you do to prepare or premedicate for a date, or think ahead for a date. Right, they can be like really anxiety producing, like it can take away the fun of actually getting excited for the date. 100%. So that's, that's practice comes in, like having a place that you can rely on that you just default. You know, that's where you do all your first dates, or, you know, having a note in your phone, I had a note in my phone when the pandemic was going on, and there wasn't a vaccine. I had a note about saying, I'll read it to you. Yes, please. pre written note that I would send to my date before we would get there. Here's a note. I'm not sure how to say this, because I've never lived through a pandemic before haha. But I follow social distancing guidelines because I'm someone who's high risk. So out of respect for your health and my own. If you're cool, staying six feet apart, then we have a pant plan smiley face. And I just send that to them, like an hour before the date. And they'd be like, Oh, yeah, chill me to agree. Like I see my high risk mom, or Yeah, I have diabetes. That's no problem. Like, I never had a person who was not with that.1
C: Yeah. And I think that's also a point like, with the pandemic and world altering shit that we all are going through, that's also an added layer to the thing but like, do what Catherine said, like, say, hey, like, I like I'm high risk, like, come like stay safe a part of like, are you vaccinated? Because I am high risk. Like it's okay to like, it's like, and that's another thing about like, our generation, I feel like as well, like, We're not afraid to like, speak up and ask those things that make me people uncomfortable, because our own comfort is more important than like, other people's. You know what I mean? Like, God is unselfish. Like, you know what I mean? Like, that's more important. Like, my, my mom is like, terrified to ask people if they're vaccinated, where I'm like, miser. materna, like, Yeah, exactly. What you get. It's for your health, that you have to like, find out things if you like, and if you can get vaccinated too, because like, I know, there are a lot of chronically sick people that can't get vaccinated, like, I wasn't sure I was going to be able to get vaccinated and like, it would be kind of important for me to know that the person that I am seeing is vaccinated that if I can't get vaccinated to like important, but on that note, too, how do you bring up an illness? Because like, you said that you're high risk, because you also said, like, you are kind of new to the dating world with being chronically sick.
CA: Yeah. So in my note that I would send before like, confirming a date, I would say, I'm someone who's high risk, right? And that's my like, vague way of saying like that I'm chronically ill, right? Like, I don't really want my chronic illness or my illness to overshadow the conversation before I get to meet this person in person, right? Like mostly because one to ease anybody's worries out there. It just for me doesn't come up in initial conversation over tech, like when we're setting up the date or when we're like kind of feeling each other out over messaging and before we set something up, it usually it is not usually is never come up for me my health has never come up to me over the date because I've always for me, controlling my anxiety has been controlling the circumstances the date happens and and making sure that it's something I'm comfortable doing. So That's another like, hopefully to ease people's worries. For me, it never really came up when I was messaging people, initially. And on the date, sometimes it never did come up. Like I said, I have an invisible condition. So, you know, if I was on a date with a guy who I didn't really feel, would understand if I brought it up, or didn't really seem that like empathetic, or wasn't a great listener. I was like, Yeah, probably not gonna, you know, when he asks what I've been doing for the past little bit, probably not convention that I've been in out of the hospital. But other dates, it has come up, and somebody you know that we start talking for a little bit. And they told me a little bit about their background, if they've been in school, or what their job is, and they seem like someone who's genuinely interested, or they're good listener, or they're asking follow up questions, or they seem compassionate. Sometimes I don't have a problem with saying, Yeah, you know, like, I actually been on a medical leave of absence, you know, struggling with my health for the past two years. And and then the person's like, Oh, well, you know, I bet the pandemic hasn't been that easy. And I'm like, Yeah, you're right. It hasn't. It's been really difficult. But I also kind of tee it up by saying, you know, like, I have multiple chronic health conditions, and it's my lived experience. So I'm used to it. But if the person has questions, I'm an open book. But I know that others aren't. Right. So like, if you don't feel comfortable talking about your health on a first date. Yeah, I'm here to tell you. I'm living proof that you don't have to, to have a successful first date. Right? You don't have to. And but the times that I have, I've actually like there was one time I went on a date with a guy and his, he was like, a question that I often ask if I do if we end up talking about my chronic health conditions is, and I've done this with friends and family, too, who are still trying to who, at the beginning of my diagnosis, were not really sure about the severity of what was going on. I will ask any person? Have you ever known somebody who's been really sick? And if one guy was like, Yeah, my mom had cancer. And I was like, oh, okay, Did she ever get infusions? And he was like, Oh, yeah, she was on chemo, and wealth. And so now all of a sudden added touch point with this person, right? Like, there was some relatability. There, he had known somebody who was sick before or had looked sick before. And he could understand my lived experience a little bit better, right? So sometimes people have been around somebody who's chronically ill. Another time one guy went on a date with was diabetic. And he was like, Oh, yeah, I know what it's like to give yourself shots, you know, type things. So you never know where the conversation may take you, if you do choose up to bring your health up your health. For me, it's been overwhelmingly positive experience. And if I do, there have been times where I've brought it up, and someone's just going like, ooh, you know that he knew that little. And they don't, it's like, okay, clearly, you cannot, you can't handle that right now. So I'll just, I'm just gonna gloss right over that. And we'll see, so you should.
C: Yeah, so I had that one, like, serious relationship. And then I've had like a handful of like other short little dating relationship things in the past nine years of being sick. And one knew I was sick when we like, before we started dating. And then the other like, there were two other ones that like did not know beforehand at all. And I before right before COVID happened, I had been like, dating this boy for a couple of months. And, like, he met me at school, so he didn't know like, none of my college friends know, like, knew that I was thinking until this podcast came out, like the like, my close friends, like know that I have it. And like, I'm very open about it in class, like, I'll bring it up, but like, no one knows, like, the severity of it. So I got like, a bunch of messages from all of them. They're like, Oh, my God, like, I didn't know. And I'm like, Yeah, like, you know, like sick cats. So it's kind of interesting. But so he didn't really know until the I have a tattoo for my lime. And so he saw my tattoo, and then he was like, oh, What's that for? And so that was like a good segue into it, of being like, oh, and then like, I like would mention I mentioned like a little bit and he was like, actually very much interesting. And I was like, I can like go into more detail about things if you want me to, but like I didn't, he was like, very vague. It made me I had such anxiety. I remember calling my friends like before it was happened. Like before I started going on dates and stuff with this guy. And I was like, when do I bring up that I'm sick, so I was also feeling pretty good at this time, too. When do I bring up that I'm sick? Like, how do I bring it up like that? Like, I was so scared of bringing it up? Like I was like, I didn't know, like, how to go about this. Yeah. But it like made me feel so much better because he was like, so attentive to it and kind of just like, asking questions, and he was like, he looked like so sad. And he was like, I'm like, so sorry that you had to go. I was like, Oh my gosh, like, Thank you kind of, I guess, like, it's okay. But so that was like a really good experience with it, then. But they're just like, sometimes, you have to kind of I guess, like, it depends on where you guys are in like, the stages and like, kind of like, I kind of framed it in that way. Like, I basically gave like the quick rundown of like, what's been going on, and I was like, I can go into and he like, asked, he started asking questions. Until Okay, so then I knew like I could get more in depth with it if I had to. And then like, he also, at one point saw I had had cupping done on my acupuncturist, on my back. And he saw it not because wearing a tank top and he was like, What is that? And I was like, let me tell you about this.
CA: Oh, yeah, a good reminder is like people in the chronic illness community. It's been a part of our life for so long that I have only been diagnosed chronic health conditions for two and a half years. And I have already forgotten what it's like to be somebody who didn't know what it was like to live with chronic illness. And I've already forgotten, forgotten what it's like to be somebody who had never, ever had any touch points with anybody who had been remotely as sick as I was in my entire life. Like, I hadn't the sickest person I've ever known in my entire life up until the point that I got sick was me like. So it's really easy to forget how other worldly our lived experience is to never been inducted into it like, like, it's an induction, like what you were saying you or when you're already doing things to induct that guy into your world, like, do you want to know more? Great question asked. It also gives the other person control over their comfort level, right? Like, it really is not. Okay. Like questions lead it leading questions like do you want to know more? Have you ever known somebody who's really sick? Do you get squeamish? Like one guy wanted to see was like, What's that on your arm? I was like, Oh, it's my picc line. And I asked him before, I was like, do you want to see it? And he was like, sure. I was like, Okay, do you get squeamish? So like, those are all really great leading questions to induct somebody into your world. And if you go on more dates with them, yeah. And send them you can say, Are you curious about learning more about my condition? If they're like, yeah, so Okay. If you're interested, I can send you some educational materials, right? Like, that's also a great way to get somebody inducted into your world. So that you're both balancing them getting to know Cassidy right, them getting to know who you are as a person, but also getting to know like these other partners in your life, which are your chronic health condition. Yes.
C: I two things I want to say. So one thing is like, I also don't think like, try not to get offended if they're like, if you say like, do you want to know more? And they say no, because like, it's a lot for people to digest like for to like to, like hear these things. And like also like, with, at least with my Lyme, trying to explain what Lyme is itself is such a complex thing. And then like trying to explain the Crohn's disease, the endometriosis, like all the other things that get thrown in there, like oh, my God, it's a lot for people to understand. So I tried to like, ease them into a big, kind of like the basic touch points. And then later, like if something comes up, and they're like, Oh, so like, this happened. So with the guy went on the date with a couple weeks ago, I like when I ordered my food. I had to say, can you make sure that it's cooked in oil, not butter, because I have a dairy allergy? I heard it. So after they left, he's like, Oh, you have a dairy allergy. And I was like, Yeah, I actually have like a lot of food allergies and restrictions. And he was like, Oh, why? And so I was like, Oh, I have like Crohn's disease and Lyme disease, and I can't eat a lot of things. And so he was like, oh, like, What's that, like? And so I like explain a little bit and that was fine too. Like he like knew a little bit and then we went on another date. And this date, I felt like crash I felt like shit. And I was like, Fuck, I was having such a bad pain like my stomach. I didn't feel bad at first when I first got there. And then randomly all of a sudden my stomach bloated. And it was like the painful bloating. I'm just like sitting there and I like was like reclining and like kind of like getting into all these weird positions. Because literally all I could think about was like, Oh my God, my stomach hurts so bad. And like probably was not like even like the best date because I was like trying to focus so I was like holy shit like it hurts. And I was getting upset cuz I didn't know. I was like, I didn't eat anything bad. Like you're just like rebranding myself like, Why the fuck now? And so he like asked you one thing. He was like, Are you comfortable? I was like, Yeah, my stomach. just Bloating. And he like put his little hand on my stomach. And he's like, Oh, no, why? And I was like, I was like, oh, like, you know, just like, I don't fucking know. Like, yeah, good question. My question. I was like, no, it just does this sometimes. But like, if they ask my questions, you can answer them and stuff. But like, it can be a lot for people to, like, have to ingest all this information to like, don't be offended right away. If they're like, you tell them some stuff. And they're like, No, I don't really need to learn anything more right now. But then like, the next date, like, if they start asking more questions, like, they might do that, but like, then if they're not asking more questions, then it might be a little bit of like, a, maybe you can't, like that's the thing that I have always had such a big anxiety and fear over. I don't want to like feel like I'm trapping somebody, like if I'm like, doing well, cuz like, like, was I like, I'm always like, when I'm kind of like in the dating world, it's when I'm feeling good. And I like I tried to explain to them like, I can be very sick and stuff. They don't want that to happen. And then for them to be like what the fuck is going on? Because like, my high school boyfriend knew that I was very sick. And then he just kind of got stuck with it anyway. But so I always have that fear of like, Oh, shit, like, it's gonna go like I told you earlier. Like, I woke up in that guy's bed one morning, and we had just been sleeping. Don't let your mind go, that dirt will please Geez, we haven't got to the sex portion of the podcast yet. But I had like, woke up the next morning and I was paralyzed. And I'm like,but what do I do now? Like, he wasn't UP YET and I was just like, okay, like, I'm just gonna lay here, like, hopefully it will go away.Like, it was super fun, just like panicking, panicking. And I can't remember, like, I think No, he woke up, and I was so paralyzed. And he like asked me like, if I wanted to, like, get back, like, go get food or something. And I was like, yeah, you can go make it. I'm paralyzed, right? I like so cuz I'm so nonchalant about when I'm paralyzed. Because I'm just so used to it that's on trauma. I was like, I was like, you can go start making breakfast. I'll be there in a few minutes. I'm paralyzed right now. And he was just like, what are you okay? Like, what do you need me to do? Like, are you okay? Like, what's going on? I was like, No, like, it's like, I can't, there is a way for other people to get me unparalleled. They have to stab me in the bottom of it with an acupuncture needle. But I was like, we've only been dating for a month. I'm not gonna make you stab me in the foot with an acupuncture needle right now. So it's totally fine. Just leave me here. I'll be fine. Just give me a second. Just give me a few minutes also brings me to the topic of sexual intercourse, if you will, when you're chronically sick, which is like not something that people talk about. But guess what, hey, we are still fucking human beings. And guess what we like to have sex? Sometimes it depends. But that's just the thing. And there's so many things that we can talk about with that, but one of them being like, okay, have you ever? I don't know how to go about this question. What do I want to ask you with this switch to ask?2
CA: Um, well, plain and simple. I haven't had sex since becoming chronically ill. And I think so. Maybe you can, you could ask Yes. Okay. Okay. Yes. So, like we talked about earlier, like, getting into the world of dating, maybe we should preface this with, okay. Like, hi, yes, we're, we're people in chronic illness. And we like people who are differently abled can still have sex. Great. Now, we've got that out of the way. We've established that. But one, like, as you call it, access to sex is different when you're differently abled, or chronically ill education on, like intimacy and having sex, whatever kind of sex that may be. It's different for people with chronic illness or who are differently abled, like, this is rent rolls, and like, things that are at play that are not at play when you are healthy, or abled, or able to eat. And there's also things like medication that can change your sex drive or medication that can alter your mood or so one, these are all like things to talk to your doctor about. But to like, there's nobody. You don't learn about the stuff in high school sex ed. Right. And then once you're out of high school sex ed, it's like you're on your own. You think like no one ever teaches you like how to give a blowjob. Yeah, never teaches you how to do a blow job. No one ever teaches you how to explore your own body, right? No one ever teaches you about. I mean, no one ever teaches you how to get chronically ill. No one teaches you how to have relationships, make relationships, have sex, be intimate. Explore your own body, with all the complications that come with being chronically ill. Right. So I have been sexually active since becoming chronically ill, because I'm one living at home. And I've taken a medical leave of absence from school, which then I went back to school, but it was a pandemic. So it was online. Up until recently, I haven't even felt well enough to be sexually active, right, like so they're, like, shoot movies depict young people as these Energizer bunnies of sexual activity. When, you know, one that may just not be somebody streams, like they did not all young people are Energizer bunnies for sexual, right like, but also it places an immense expectation in this invisible way up on your shoulders, especially for young people, honestly, anybody of any age, especially perpetuated by the media, they should be having sex all the time, right? That like sex should be an easy commodity for young people, it should be like, and being desirable is something that we should be putting a lot of energy into every day, right? That's what the media tells us. So when I I didn't really even think about sex for two years, if I'm being honest, because I was so unwell. And I was like, I I can't think about pleasuring somebody else. When one I don't have the time to pleasure myself, because I am so sick. Yeah, I'm in pain all the time. And I'm in and out of the hospital. Like I'm on all these medications. It just wasn't, it wasn't a part of the question, right? So I can't really speak on what it's like to have sex with chronic illness, I can probably imagine that there are like, some positions that are probably better for me than other positions, right? Like, I've been in a sexually intimate relationship before. And I've had multiple partners before. So I can speak on that when I was not as chronically ill as I was now. And this was, you know, when I was chronically ill and didn't even know it is oh, you know, like, sex is tiring, right? Like, there's positions that may suit your body and your physical strength better than others, right? Like, there's things to make you comfortable, like lubrication, or temperature of the room. Like all those kinds of things, um, but also not having sex for a long time. One is okay, but you do already to have sex. It's like, Okay, how do I do that? Because, like, as, and, you know, of course, starts with dating, and so just getting to know somebody, but especially for young people, it with chronic illness, if you're not at college, which is just like, a small population of young people, all in within several blocks of each other, like, going to classes together going to parties together, right? Like how you there's not a, there's an immediate community of people your age, maybe or a people of your interest. So that's where dating comes in. But also, it's perfectly fine to not be sexually active for a while and there's nothing wrong with you. And it isn't any inherently less sexual or sexy. To be not sexually active for a while.
C: Yes. Can we get rid of the stigma around? Like, why aren't you having sex? Like you should be having touch like, why are you not in a relationship? Yeah, it has been it's so hard for like my mom, especially sorry, mom kind of call you out? Like but to like fathom the idea of like, why aren't she taught me like, why aren't you on dating apps where I'm sharing this like, because I have a lot of other things that my main focus is on right now. And that like, for me, my number one thing that I've always said is, my health is my number one priority. School will always be there. If I need to drop out of school and come back to it later school will always be there. And I have done that. relationships and stuff can always be there, but my health may not be there. So like, if I need to stop using dating apps like that, and focus on my health, that's fine if I'm not having sex for a little while because I am focusing on my health and trying to get better so that I'm able to like not have to fucking stop again, because I like doing it also like so. Well. That's totally fine, too. Like you're it's okay to not do these things. I have only ever been sexually active being chronically sick. Yeah. Yeah. So, like you said, like, yeah, it is tiring and things like that. And there definitely are, like, depending on how you're feeling like positions and things that you're gonna have to and it's like a topic that you need to kind of talk about, yeah. 100% before you engage in any sort of sexual intercourse of someone like that is if you haven't brought up the chronic illness topic yet, you need to bring that topic up beforehand, at least especially like with me, Lyme disease is considered a sexually transmitted disease. I didn't even I didn't know that. It can't Yeah. So it's a cousin to fuck syphilis, chlamydia, one of those, I think it's syphilis. And because of the spider keep shape of it. And so they believe that it can be sexually transmitted. So what I have heard is that it can be sexually transmitted from the boy to the girl, and then the girls then can pass it on to the babies. Oh, and there's also not enough studies and proof and things to like, because no one believes that Lyme disease is a real thing. So there's not going to be studies to show that it can be transmitted, but I also do know couples who like one of them had it and the other got it. So like, also topic that you need to discuss. Hashtag condoms, wrap it up Trojans like the daily Trojan. Yeah. Um, but I'm also on that topic. Like a lot of people that are chronically sick have a lot of like allergies and stuff and you need to find out if you could be allergic to anything that is in the condom or anything that is in like the lube that you could potentially be using like those things, but then like talking about positioning and stuff, like I have arthritis arthritis all over my body nation, why like they're things you're not gonna want to do. And then like, if you have a picc line in or a port, there are things that you cannot do like honestly sleeping next to someone like and I mean literally sleeping next to someone when I had my picc line and my boyfriend and I had to change our like which side of the bed we slept on. Because I slept on the I was sleeping on the wrong position like he was going to be like, let hitting my pick my normal arm. Yeah, these are things that you may run into when you're dating and you're like, wait, like I had to change like, which hand wanting arm because sometimes that arm would be like wrapped IV at the time, like, like, you have to kind of think about these little things that you don't really think about with that like being said, if you don't want to do it, you don't have to do it. And if you want to like and for me right now also like sex can be painful depending on what kind of chronic illness you have. It can be painful not only with like, your other joints, but like for me right now, with endometriosis diagnosis. That's one there. That's all your lady parts. Like literally I am in constant pain right now in my vagina. So literally the thought of something going up there makes me like quit. It's not anything that happens not right now. And like that's what can and
CA: there's like that and like penetrative sex is not the only sex out there. Yeah, exactly. And penetrative. Sex is not the only sexy thing out there, right? showering with your partner. That's sexy. It's fuck like, yeah, oral sex. sexiest fuck sex with your hands. I don't know you, whatever. You want to call that non pennant. Your hands like, I don't know what you call that? I don't know. You call that? It's, like fingering in handjobs. Like, yeah, there's there's options. And but again, like theme for this episode of the podcast is just do what makes you comfortable. And also, it's important we say, stopping in the middle of sex is fine. Yeah, stopping and continuing is fine. Stopping not being all together is fine. Yeah, saying, Hey, don't like that might like that need to change position is fine. Like they ask you to change position. Fine, right. Like there's nothing. Sex is like an intricate act in that. Like, there's a lot of moving parts literally. And metaphorically. Yes, like, so if you don't hype up, chime in and say what you're comfortable with and say what makes you feel safe? Or what feels best? Right? Like your I think this is something that chronic illness, people who have chronic illness are really kind of experts at is knowing their body. Yes. 100%. use that skill to your advantage when making out with somebody when you're having oral sex when you're having penetrative sex, whatever, use that skill to your advantage, like, you know, it feels good in your body. Use your intuition if something feels wrong, if something is you get tired in one position, you know, like make a move to change to a different position or just say, Oh, I'm so sorry. Like, um, can we just change positions? Like, that doesn't make you any less sexy, and less desirable. Right, like? So I think there's this misconception that like, even if you're not chronically ill, that sex is this like, is, is as something that doesn't have words like the act itself doesn't require speaking. And I'm like, No, no, no, that's also like, that's so problematic, so problematic. And it's also the men are just in charge. It's like, ladies, take a stand. No, you can be in charge. Like, for me at least, like if you're not comfortable enough saying, hey, fucking change positions, because that's hurting or like, don't, I don't like that, like you need to be able to, it's supposed to be for your pleasure. So if it's not pleasuring you in any sort of way, like even if you Have a chronic illness or don't have chronic illness, say something. Yeah. And just be like, they are like get angry about it or something may be a red flag. And that's all I got to say. But one thing that you talked about earlier that we said we wanted to talk about for this one was the libido thing.Yeah, using your voice in the doctor's office isn't any different than using your voice when it comes to sex, right? So using your voice to advocate for yourself in the doctor's office, apply, copy and paste those tactics to the bedroom basically, right? So1
C: that's another thing, like, it's okay to be sexually active for a while. And then you're simply a symptom may be like low libido, or a medication, we have a side effect that like causes your sex drive to go down, and like vocalizing that to your doctor, like, hey, like, I've noticed, like, I'm not really getting horny anymore, or something like that, or like in saying it to your partner to being like, Hey, I'm just not feeling it right now. Like that can happen and like being okay with saying that, like, that is something that you have to learn how to do.
CA: And it's something that like, can be difficult to put words to? Yes, it's, it's, it's hard to, like, wait, yeah, I guess I really haven't thought about, you know, like, yeah, having sex or feeling like, I want to touch myself in months or weeks or years. Like, yes, you know, that's hard to put words to. And it's something that a lot of cultures, especially westernized American culture, has historically shamed. Like, we shame people who talk about sex in any way, shape, or form or pleasure in any way, shape, or form. So talk to your doctor about it, you know, look up your medication side effects. But again, it's, it's advocating for yourself in the bedroom is no, you know, no way different than advocating for yourself in the doctor's office. And sex is something that you can ask your doctor about preemptively, right? Like if you are going on a medication say, Okay, great. Like another one to add to the list. Does this one what side effects does it come with? And does it come with decreased decreased sex drive,1
C: also making sure that medications are not interfering if you're on birth control, too, because like, there are like medications like especially if you're if you take antibiotics, which I was on for years, that totally make sure like birth control, not work for that for for the sex purpose. So like, also finding out about that as well like that super important. Also, for everybody, not even like, if you don't have a chronic illness, if you get like strep or something and you get on antibiotics for two weeks, like, your birth control is not working for you for two weeks. So yeah, learning all these things.2
CA: Yeah, all these things. And I think, again, communicating like you were, you know, like when you were setting up your first date, and talk, like when you communicating about your chronic illness and educating your partner on it, or educating a date on it, or whatever. Like, it all comes down to communication and rolling your narrative and advocating for yourself. And a lot of that can feel like, it just goes out the window with dating, sex, making out whatever, with relationships, because we live in a world where it's not talked about, and we grow up, not ever being educated, that a lot of the tactics we use in our everyday life are great tactics to apply in a relationship in the dating world. And in the second half and having the sex world. Yes, we call it that. Yeah, they're all like, like, communicating well with a friend is is the same thing as communicating well with your partner, right, like, is the same thing as communicating well, during intimate situations, so apply and seek out education? Like there's nothing wrong with looking up like what are sex positions, I did that like1
C: helpful tip cosmopolitan, if you go on Cosmos website, they literally have like, sex positions of the day that you can look at, you could look at them if you're like having issues and you're like, Oh, I'm in pain, like what's something else that I could try? Look it up and I think also another one that I wanted to throw out earlier is the mighty.com. I used to have an internship there but they I'm pretty sure they have I suggested at one time I think they told me they had already done it, but like a sex positions for like different chronic illnesses, even for people like in wheelchairs and things like that. But then also like if you are talking to someone and dating somebody, and they do want to learn more, the mighty also has like a whole section for like, your like significant others and things like that. And like yeah, I'm one of them like my friend's boyfriend. One of my sick like one of my Lyme friends. Her boyfriend at one point was like asking me He's like, I don't know, she was having a really hard rough time and he like texted me he was like, I don't know what to do. And I literally just sent him article that was like how to support your chronically sick, significant other and make a cup of tea, like make them make them their tea, so they don't have to like those little things. So they're like, all kinds of resources if they want it to. And I think the main focus of this episode I feel has been to say like, hey, it's okay to talk about these things. And chronic just because you're chronically sick doesn't mean that you have to miss out on all these things. That is, like part of the normal experience, even though we do have to miss out on a lot. relationships, and dating and sex are not one of them. And take the control for yourself like this, we are so limited in this life with what we get to control because of our illnesses taking like a little bit of the control over our bodies. This is something you get you can shake with that control over. So do it and do what you are comfortable with. Yeah,2
CA: absolutely. I totally echo that, I think dating and relationships and chronic illness. I think the conversations around dating chronic illness are feel non existent. But it doesn't mean that you can't make them happen either with your partner with your best friends, whether they're just between you and Google, and you're and you're just educating yourself about, like you said antibiotics and birth control or medications and decreased libido or how to write a hinge profile or pictures to use or what are good conversation starters. Like, there's an but with the caveat being it can so often feel like that's just another thing for somebody who's already chronically ill and has, is dealing with so much to add on to their plate. So yeah, again, do things at your own pace. You're comfortable. Because isn't that you know, like, the crane life lesson that we have learned by being chronically ill is that our bodies are on our own their own clocks, right, like so often, we have to work sort of synergistically with our bodies, and it's a yin yang relationship. And yeah, so approaching dating with that same mindset, like sometimes my body may demand that I stay home one day, like sometimes my body may be feeling things that I don't know how to understand. So I need to communicate them with my doctor, or with my date, like, Hey, I'm really bloated, and my stomach's really hurting. I think we might need to call this date early, you know, raincheck for another time, how does that work for you? Nine times out of 10 the person that's going to be so responsive and is going to be like very understanding. So do your prompter with do it on your timeline. And have fun. Yeah, that's the other thing. Dating is fun. And it should it's just meeting with other people. And first chronic illness, it can be such an isolating experience. Yeah, if you're nervous about meeting somebody for the first time. Just think about the fact that you may never see that person again. And so try and learn a little bit about that person, right? And place the focus on something else rather than thinking about, you know, Oh, am I gonna talk about my illness? Oh, what's going to happen? What am I going to say? Start asking them questions, because sometimes when you get somebody who's a real talker, it makes things easy for you.1
C: Yes, yeah. 100% Well, thank you so much for joining me today.2
CA: Of course, thank you for having me. And thanks for reaching out and reaching out into the ether of the internet and just sending me an email like I was absolutely flattered and floored and honored to get your email and and to talk with you today. And you know, impart what I could to your audience and hopefully help some people and like I said,
C: Hey, can you help me I'm about to go steal your your hinge profile right now. From me, so at the end of every episode, we give a song Oh my gosh, a song recommendation for the listeners. The episode has been about sowhat would you like to do? Like what's a song that would relate to data?
CA: I would there's like so many my god this is I would be so remiss if I didn't totally plug this I'm sure the rest of the world is already on the Olivia rodrygo bow bless you but if you're ever pre gaming for a date slap on her new album sour give it a listen. We're just gonna do the whole song recognition is just all sour. Yeah, if you're if you need a hype song, like you're getting ready to go on a date and you're freaking the fuck out right and you just get out of your own head slap on brutal by the rodrygo banging your hair out in the car, and
C: That's literally what I did on my way to my date last weekend I've banged out like it's it's brutal. It is brutal out here. It's brutal. It's brutal, have you chronic illness, but it's also brutal just dating in general. So like, that's a good thing that also makes me feel like just because we're chronically sick is not what's making this part hard. Like some of the things in our life are made more difficult because we live life with a chronic illness. But dating Yeah, is really hard for everybody. So it just is like a little thing. And so like, yeah, it can be brutal out here. But we can also have fun and dance it out and shake it out. But then if the day goes really bad, just like skip to start, don't skip anything. But you could just like go down to one step. enough for you happier. Whatever you need. Yes. Oh, oh, gosh. Yeah. The whole album I call Michael. Yeah. So that is our song recommendation, the whole album of sour particularly. Oh, but just Yes. Thank you so much, Catherine, for joining me. Make sure you subscribe to the podcast. I will follow up post Catherine's chronically Catherine Instagram page and the link to her column. So make sure you guys follow her along there. And make sure you give us a like a subscribe, review, leave a review whatever you want that I GWS podcast, and we'll be back.
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